After some experience with Linux Mint, I gathered the courage to try another distro. I’d like to turn an old laptop into an IPTV receiver plus FTP/OpenVPN/HomeAssistant server with occasional desktop use. I first installed Windows 11 just in case my family needs to use it (it fucking sucks, the built-in PS/2 keyboard doesn’t work half the time but that’s an issue for later) but now I’ll be turning it into a dual-boot setup with Debian as the primary option. Please give me some encouragement, I’m really afraid of new things.
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My usual approach when trying Debian on a desktop or workstation: if I have to install a single package from testing or sid, fuck this and just use Arch or Fedora.
It’s Debian. Let us know when you have your first real issues with it, probably some time in 2037.
Don’t be too hopeful, it will probably be the upgrade to Debian 14 in 2030. And the issue will probably be: yes, you need to change the repo and then full-upgrade.
I had some getting it to run on a Chuwi HI8 but the thing is a terrible tablet-PC pretending to be a terrible Android tablet…
I had a fair amount of issues back in the day due to debian having limited support for newer hardware with proprietary drivers. I wouldnt be surprised if that still a thing given Debian’s modus operandi.
Debian now prompts users if they want non free drivers in the installer, and the installer it self comes with them so it can boot on platforms that require it, non free drivers and firmware are also in a seperated repository to non-free and enabling them is independent, selecting non free drivers in the installer will enable the non free driver and firmware repository
Good question. It seems like Debian has been speeding up a bit. The software is still a bit older, but it’s not too far behind compared to some other Debian releases. I switched and it’s been rock solid, despite me running a Trixie Backports system.
See my newest comment with the monospaced text.
But yeah, not a real issue, I fixed it in 15 minutes. Apparently it was foolish of me to want Num Lock on the lock screen (Czech keyboard layout uses the number row for diacritics).
Edit: Now I fixed that too. I can easily use numbers in my password now!
I just made the switch from Win 10 to Bazzite Linux some two weeks ago. It worked so great that I should have done it a long time ago.
I like it so far.
Good luck! And don’t forget to add the non-free-firmware repo and maybe the other additional ones if you need them. A standard Debian comes without. And if you’re following an old tutorial, that might not cover the split between non-free and non-free-firmware which happened somewhat recently in Debian terms. Their own documentation is good and up to date, though.
Isn’t non-free-firmware included by default now?
the installer will prompt the user during install if they do or do not want to include it, the yes answer is selected by default, so I think that counts as defaults to
Good question. maybe I was wrong, I’ve used Debian for so long, I’ll either just update it or use the advanced installer… It’s certainly on the installation media now. Not sure if it copies it over to the system. Would make sense, though if it did…
Good question. maybe I was wrong
Yes, from Debian 12, non-free-firmware is default. Makes it even easier to install.
This shouldn’t be a thing of luck, if you are prepared.
No, I’m absolutely not. What desktop environment should I choose? KDE Plasma is tempting - it would be nice to use it before I install it with Arch on my main system - but I don’t need the cutting edge or much personalization. I know XFCE best but GNOME is default… GNOME’s big launcher looks great for the TV but it’s also more resource-hungry and less customizable…
I guess I’ll go with the familiar Windows-style XFCE and maybe add big remote-friendly icons later when I configure an IR receiver.
I have been using Gnome for a few weeks (because I have an issue with my tablet and Plasma works badly with it), and it’s shit. Very locked in, strange choices regarding how information is presented, waste of screen estate (topbar that sits completely unused)… Plasma was a million times better. If I didn’t have this tablet problem… anyway that’s my advice. Have fun. Debian is stable, you should be good
I love this, because I feel the complete opposite in some regards. I love the simplicity of GNOME. There are some weird UI decisions; I much prefer to have the dock available on the desktop than to use the application switcher every time, but that’s about it. GNOME is very thematically consistent, it’s simple, and it works smoothly. It has enough customisation where the sensible defaults fall short, at least for me, but theme-wise I really like Adwaita the way it is.
I use KDE on my laptop though, and I enjoy the tinkering with it. Feel like it’s fairly unstable though, Plasma just crashes at times when you tinker with it (though so far it’s never happened in normal usage). Design-wise it feels much too cluttered, but there’s a lot of options to play with to make things at least almost the way I’d like it.
We’re spoiled for choice, and that’s awesome. There’s something for everyone.
Yea to be frank I also love the simplicity of Gnome. I do apreciate its qualities. It’s consistent, I get that it tries to offer a streamlined experience. I find it sacrifices a lot to get there though. The lack of flexibilty (by default without extensions) wrt window/workspace management feels a bit crippling. I do appreciate the consistency. But that’s not enough for me to make up for other aspects. And for the overhanging feeling that it’s so strongly opinionated, it might just diverge from your sensibilities at some point, without warning.
Yea, the single fact that we’re able to talk about this is a testament to the choice… 👌🏼 Pretty cool. All in all I may like Plasma better, there are true dealbreakers that make its usage impossible for me (tbc). Anyway. For now I work under Windows11. Whatever works
People who hate gnome so much always confuse me.
Yes, I can’t figure why
For me, I was a long term gnome 2 user and have used gnome 3 and various derivatives. Gnome 2 was still very customizable, but Gnome 3 was very prescriptivist. I feel like KDE gives me the ability to dial in my desktop quite a bit more and I really like dolphin and the KDE apps. With that said, I don’t hate Gnome. I’m glad it exists if only to encourage other DEs to keep getting better. I don’t see myself daily driving it, but I would gladly recommend it to a Linux beginner.
It seems like the answer might be something like “it’s too different from windows! 😡😡😡”
Yea sure 😁 think before you prejudice !
FYI, I’m not hating. Criticism should be a fine thing to do, enjoyed by all parties, respectful and all. See my other replies for my opinion. I swear it’s not terrible, and you’re free to discuss it.
Your other replies come off a bit more tempered admittedly. As for me, gnome annoys me in a few ways but I’ve adjusted to most of them and I just couldn’t get past the initial steps of customization on KDE. I would honestly prefer to have another option and to use both but I couldn’t see it working out for me. I’m like you, I definitely prefer that another option than my preference exists. Perhaps a future version will win me over. And even if not, choice is good.
What desktop environment should I choose
That’s the beauty … You can change any time you want (sudo tasksel) withjout losing your data. or install all of them and choose one each time you login
I have used gnome, plasma, and xfce and they are all fine. I prefer KDE personally but they’re all going to do what you need to do. It’s all down to personal aesthetic preference, and picking one won’t hinder you in any real way. KDE to me just looks super nice out of the box for my taste, and I like the customization.
KDE Plasma is very nice if you come from Windows and don’t mind an environment that’s somewhat heavy on performance - personally, I think it’s the closest, modern Windows-like experience. XFCE is very lightweight, but not very modern, as far as I remember.
Don’t forget, you can also install multiple environments and then pick one from your login screen; that way you can try them all and see what fits best
Well, you can try a Live CD for first contact. Or even a virtual machine, with a complete install of the operating system and desktop environment, without touching your actual system.
Is a laptop really a good choice for a home server?
What are the pro/cons vs a mini computer like a raspy or sort of? Is it trivial to keep the laptop always on without closing the lid?
I have an Acer dual core running a backup stream from FM for our community radio station. It’s been going 24/7 for 7 years now, hasn’t missed a beat.
You can disable power of on lid close. I ran a dell laptop with a terramaster as a server for a couple of years when I lived in a small flat no issues with it as a general media home lab has a built in UPS too.
Laptops make excellent low power draw servers. Disabling the laptop lid switch is typically trivial. (Tickbox usually)
Also running x86 is an advantage over SBCs like the raspberry pi. Also, use what you have before you buy anything.
Raspberry Pi is expensive and does not come with a UPS. I already have this mediocre laptop. The Pi cost may recoup itself on the electricity bill but I’m not happy about booting from an SD card.
The only lid problem is that the BIOS of this laptop does not allow turning on with the lid closed (also, there is no Power-on-AC) but I might hack it with a magnet.
Thanks. Maybe another pro is, that it also comes with a screen, if ssh fails.
I mean, the good old dumb 32" LCD TV should be the primary screen. But maybe mom will want to watch in another room sometimes, in which case she can pull out the laptop and use her familiar IPTV client.
Just a little warning if you boot both OS from the same drive. Windows update can and will break your bootloader at one point (if not worse, tho that’s rare). Keep a Linux live or rescue stick around in case something breaks.
Yeah, I know this, what a pain… I eventually had to install rEFInd on one of the PCs with dual boot.
Mint is solid, if you use it and it works for you why change? Do you need to bother with windows? What do you use that can’t be done on Linux I wonder? Perhaps work out how to set a VM and try out Debian and even windows in a test sandbox so you’re comfortable with the processes before taking the plunge. Check out KVM, QEMU, and Virt-Manager.
I have worked with VMs before and still use an XP one sometimes. But modern Windows in a VM on an old laptop with 4 GB of RAM? I’ll pass…
I recently helped a friend install Debian via sms, it was surprisingly easy, and she had never tried installing Linux before. When installing on a laptop I’d recommend using cable instead of wifi, and then setup wifi when the system is up and running.
Best of luck
Gee! How long did it take to transfer the iso via sms? Did you have to uuencode it?
🤣 🤣 🤣
I hereby grant the application for luck. May your Debian boot and bring joy.
It will do this just once
Guess what, you’re right! Technically, it does boot but
Debian GNU/Linux 13 mmpc tty1 mmpc login: _does not bring joy.
Also, why is the fan spinning? I’ve been on this screen for minutes while looking up lightdm troubleeshooting on my phone. Blinking the cursor and Linux backend stuff can’t be too CPU-intensive, right?
Edit: fixed. I had broken lightdm by adding the numlockx on script in the wrong place, too eager to get a lock screen with an enabled Num Lock
I haven’t restarted it since but it has brought joy. It’s not pretty but way less setup hassle than Windows if you want it at least somewhat privacy-respecting. And even default XFCE beats Windows 11 on looks and practicality.
You make it sound religious. Did i join a religion deccades ago and not knowing it?
If we say yes, do you think we can get tax exemptions?
The first rule if the church of tux is to talk about the church of tux 🙏
I use arch btwnot really
Obligatory you should use Arch btw.
(Good luck)
I’ll be installing Arch on my main laptop when I make the disk space and get the motivation (my mental state is almost as messy as the drive). I’ll also take the opportunity to reinstall Windows because it’s an old copy where I chose my real name as the user directory name (I didn’t know better back then), with a space and diacritics, which broke lots of things. But this is a server and I preferred Mint to Manjaro so Debian it is.
I would suggest when you decide to give Arch a go for the first time to start out with something like CachyOS to get your legs under you so you can easily understand it. That being said Arch is painfully easy to install now thanks to Archinstall but going the CachyOS route it’ll install the packages you need and then you can understand what you do and don’t need when it comes time to install regular Arch. Otherwise you might just install Arch and then wonder why some stuff doesn’t work because you didn’t install certain packages.
Why is archinstall “painfully” easy? Do you think its users will do badly at troubleshooting because they didn’t go through a setup process that teaches more about the system?
it’s because with Archinstall it tells you what to do/setup as opposed to the user having to utilize something like the Arch Wiki to set it up. So it acts almost like any other distro install. It walks you through the process.
You’ll be fine.
Why is this so ominous?
If it’s 10 year old hardware, you should be fine.
I’ve only had problems in Debian with brand new hardware where I have to use the backport branch to get drivers (like for wifi.)
Though mainly I use Ubuntu, where I would not have that problem. Not sure why you switched from mint.
I tried Mint on my old MacBook pro and it was really slow, impossible to scroll through a website slow. I then installed Ubuntu and had a wonderful experience
No luck needed, it’ll go fine. You pretty obviously have all the experience you need.
Experience? Yes, but I’m also really clumsy and impatient. Lots of things, hardware and software, broke in my hands because I wasn’t careful enough.
You’ll have a hard time breaking Debian (unless you make a FrankenDebian) also FYI the Debian Installation Media has a built in Rescue environment for Debian under Advanced Options
That’s just part of learning sometimes.
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