Your™
I have a question for all Pixel/Graphen OS users. Will these changes affect new users (I am currently interested in purchasing a Pixel 8 to install Graphen OS for the first time and want to use apps from outside the Google Store) and current users (if I want to install an app on GraphenOS, e.g. via F-droid or Aurora Store, will I be able to do so in the future, or is there no information on this and only time will tell)?
Not a GOS user, but as far as I know, you will still be able to install shit on GOS
I hope this means the resurgence of cheap flip phones. I have no use for a pocket computer that I can’t use like a computer. I went with Android because iOS was useless, and now Android is about to be made equally useless.
Will be interesting to see how many people move over to iOS now that Google is trashing Android’s redeeming feature.
I’ve enabled the advanced protection and it’s so easy to turn off to install a single app and turn back on but I haven’t seen it as an issue. Is there something new now? Because I’m not seeing an issue here.
Yes they are, for all intents and purposes, making it impossible to turn off advanced protection. The only way to install unverified apps will be via developer mode and if you turn that on a bunch of apps refuse to run until you turn it back off
Presumably, rooted users/custom ROMs should be able to get around this, but how many developers are going to continue to support development and/or release .apk files if it’s only a tiny subset of the userbase they can reach?
Well fuck that then. I guess I’m going to have to get a graphene OS put on this mother fucker.
That’s really too bad because I did appreciate all the other features of advanced protection except for that.
The only way to install unverified apps will be via developer mode and if you turn that on a bunch of apps refuse to run until you turn it back off.
Wait, when did this become a thing? I’ve had developer mode turned on on my phone for ages without any issues.
Not sure when exactly but some banking apps in the UK refuse to run if they detect developer mode is enabled and, given the general trend towards locking everything down, I expect many other mainstream apps to enforce these checks at some point.
I guess one could run two phones, an official phone for banking etc and another one with dev mode for pissing around but these rules will reduce the number of people who install unverified apps to a very small number
1k? Must be in Euros or USD.
Take the one thing Android has over Apple away. Why go Android then? Might as well go with the device that has close ties to the hardware. Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
this is honestly my ideology at the moment… like freedom was the main reason I’m on android. Price wise it’s already getting close, and most flagships have removed microSD card support by now. I’m seriously debating my next phone being an iphone just because most of my family uses them, and my convenience being on android is being actively removed anyway.
I can’t even imagine that transfer, I’ve been android my entire life but, every time I talk to my family I list what I want in a phone, and every time I talk to them it seems apple has marked another issue off the list with an update.
I went Apple for a bit around iphone 6. then back to Android. But Apple has solved most of my OS complaints since and I’m still Android mainly because it’s open. I already know Google is making bank off my info, if they do this bullshit, I’ll go Apple until Linux is baked.
TBF, I could also see myself with a mobile access point and a small linux tablet but I don’t see much in that realm either. .
Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
Google is closing those gates as well. Pixel 10 drivers aren’t in the new AOSP build. Graphene has been updated to the Android 16 core, but as Google tightens the leash, it will be more difficult. Google’s plan to combine ChromeOS and Android into a MegaBloat will further make it so AOSP is useless.
Every time Google releases a new app for the core OS, they stop supporting the open-source flavor of it, which is why apps like the AOSP messaging app can’t do RCS. Eventually all that will be left of AOSP is a mostly useless husk.
Google’s intended use case for AOSP going forward is for vendors to be able to test pre-release things, primarily in an emulator environment.
Couple that with things like Samsung’s Qualcomm phones can’t be bootloader unlocked, and less and less phones in general can be bootloader unlocked, it is going to be an uphill battle for alt OSes.
Hopefully, this will drive enough dev time towards getting a proper Linux-based mobile device in the works, but even that will be problematic as most modems/chips available for that kind of project are inferior, slow, do not support all the bands/modes of modern carrier networks, and even after all of that, the carrier can still reject to certify the device for the network.
It isn’t hopeless, but everyone is going to have to get creative and driven if we have any intention of retaining free and open mobile devices.
GrapheneOS said they are working with an unnamed OEM to make devices compatible with GOS. Hopefully they are good, because Pixels may indeed be a dead end.
If they do and it’s a good phone, I may literally move back to Android just for that after 3 years of daily driving iOS. Right now choice is between giving my money to Apple vs Google so I might as well go with the one that has tighter hardware-software integration.
Well said, and you’re right, it’s not hopeless. Most people don’t need the latest superphone, personally I want to carry around a good music device, that I can read books on, and preferably have maps. Many like cameras, but I like the idea of a devoted one. The communications (/surveillance) device is a separate thing and perhaps we should think seriously about breaking these things apart, hotspot that you turn on when needed for example. How about a nice general purpose pocketable linux gadget and a secure simple telecom to give it a connection?
There is still this. SONY’s phones are expensive, unfortunately.
Yeah, I’ll never buy another Sony phone or Sony anything if I can help.
I bought one and used it to miracast to various devices.
With an update, they removed miracast capability on the phone. The same way they removed Linux from the PS3.
Will never trust them or buy Sony anything again.
I won’t trust them to not screw me over for things outside of my control.
I was looking into Sony for my last phone, but one of my friends ended up getting one before I did and he hard pushed me away from it. He said it was a hassle for him to unlock it, and that they moreorless said that the act of unlocking the bootloader will void his warranty (which is not legal in the US) and that after 2 tries of unlocking and having it not unlock, he returned it and went to another company (I think it was oneplus?), he also wasn’t impressed with the performance vs price that he was getting out of it.
I was wishy washy on whether my next phone would be android or iOS for years, but with this change my decision got a lot easier. Was fun while it lasted, Android - but if you’re going to become a walled garden I’d rather be in the better one.
Wait a little bit longer and get a Linux phone
Purism - Librem 5 running PureOS (or whatever Linux distro you want)
Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
Will we even have that? IIRC, Google’s changing the open source model for Android so its going to be a lot harder from ROM devs to keep up to date with security patches, and then more importantly, have access to device drivers
Maybe there’s a silverlining of the custom rom scene interest growing again like when Android first came out among enthusiasts. Lot over the years just stopped flashing roms, since phones got “good enough” that it stopped being worth the hassle.
But, losing easy sideloading without need for adb is a pretty big deal for enthusiasts that more might start looking into custom roms again.
Take the one thing Android has over Apple away. Why go Android then
They’ve passed the critical mass wherein they can dictate anything they want without losing any significant userbase. The only people that this is going to affect is a tiny minority of people who even know what sideloading is. If you don’t think so, you’re in a bubble.
These fuckers never wanted to be user centric opposite to apple, they wanted to be alongside apple in telling users what they can or cannot do. They’re worse because of the whole advertising monopoly but most people don’t even know what any of the above matters. They’ll continue on like everyday.
Yeah, this seems crazy to me. This is a big differentiator. I still hate apple’s ui and several other things but now I can see myself being convinced to get an iPhone. There was zero chance before this decision. If apple ever allows real third party launchers and browsers that aren’t just safari skins (or if android ever disallows launchers and makes all browsers chrome skins), I’d be pretty close to 50-50.
Many are going even further. Both my friend and I are planning to get dumb flip phones next. Forget also this smartphone always online stuff
I like the idea, but there’s a lot of things that I truly want on my phone. Like Google Maps and the Garmin app for my watch.
you can use sandboxed google maps on GrapheneOS
I don’t even know what that means, honestly.
you create a google account that is only used inside the sanboxed container and prevent your data from being mined and sent to google. you can turn off its internet access at any time in the permissions which isn’t possible on stock Android
Oh ok. Cool thanks
I’m looking forward for a Sailfish OS device tbh
In the U.S you can’t buy any of these devices because the cell networks are privately owned and one of the unofficial conditions of you getting access is that you have to have government surveillance and soon censorship on your device, as well as locked bootloaders with signing and stuff. They are currently spending tons of money in Europe to get rid of freedom of thought over there as well. You guys might have 10 more years.
In the U.S you can’t buy any of these devices…
No. My Father in Law has one and they’re available from Verizon, AT&T, and others.
…and one of the unofficial conditions of you getting access is that you have to have government surveillance and soon censorship on your device…
Where are you getting this disinformation from?
I have been trying to find a single open device to replace my android phone with for over a month now. Every single one of these devices are only sold with support for European cell networks. The radios inside American cells phones are controlled by parents and property standards so that you literally cannot buy a device that can access the network without one of their radios(which is a fully programmable tracking device almost hidden to the OS BTW) you cannot reproduce or even modify the radios due to this horrible law in the U.S called DMCA, which means if a device has any drm software on it at all, which is basically everything nowadays you can get sued by the company that made it by making any modifications to the device that they don’t approve of.
It’s not disinfo, I know the facts and I don’t deal in lies and disinfo. I research everything I say extensively and verify it myself.
Okay I think I mis-handled the threading. I thought you were replying to the comment about dumb phones and those are most definitely available in the United States.
You are looking for something that runs Sailfish but that OS is meant for the Euro market so its targeted at handsets meant for use there. The entire supported device list is a measly 16 handsets and all but one of those are made by Sony! It’s a crazily niche OS.
The radios inside American cells phones are controlled by parents and property standards…
Yes, I’m aware of that. It’s literally no different for European cell phones. The Jolla C2 is a rebadged Reeder S19 Pro Max S and whatever modem is buried in that thing is going to have precisely the same issues. Patents are global and at this point even the Chinese are following them, much less a small Turkish manufacturer like Reeder.
(which is a fully programmable tracking device almost hidden to the OS BTW)
They’re all like this. All of them. Even the ones in a handset running Sailfish.
you cannot reproduce or even modify the radios due to this horrible law in the U.S called DMCA
The DMCA has very little to do with Software Defined Radios…which is precisely what the modem chips in these handsets are. Frankly I don’t WANT people fucking with the SDR in their handsets. You can do it with lots of other SDRs (GMRS, Amateur, WiFi, etc) and people inevitably abuse the ability and fuck things ups.
The DMCA is a rotten law but isn’t anywhere close to the biggest problem when it comes to SDRs and Phone Handsets.
Literally a government backed monopoly funded with trillions of take payer dollars at this point. When I run for president one day, besides things like completely banning 100% private political campaigns and proganda, one of the first things im going to do is force the FCC to create a wide pocket of bandwidth for a open source and private mesh networks with a range of around 20-50 miles between devices with fallback modes of hundreds of miles, and maybe another fall back mode for thousands if antenna size allows for this inside cell phones. That way we can control our own cell phones and have a citizen licensed cell network.
nobody’s forcing you to use those radios. you can use a GrapheneOS phone in airplane mode
No you can’t use graphene is because almost no device supports it anymore. Very few devices have an unlocked bootloader, and commands don’t work on devices that don’t have a snapdragon chip set.
Also using airplane mode completly defeats the purpose of having a cell phone.
no option for secure messaging on a flip phone
yeah, these flip phone people sound very dumb to me. you don’t like google so you’re just gonna hand over all your data and conversations by using unencrypted SMS and phone calls instead? 🤦♀️
Reject Phones
Return to Ham Radios and Morse code, with One Time Pad layered on top of it for encryption
You would be surprised. Most modern “dumb phones” run KaiOS which has an App Store.
Modern flip phones can often tether.
carry… TWO devices?! Like some kind of insane asshole!?
the horror
I mean, yeah.
Why would I carry one device that does everything and one device that does less and isn’t really more private, doesn’t make much sense.
Because Android is ran by a capitalist corporation that spies on you 24/7 and seeks to restrict and control their platform.
If I could make it convenient, I’d carry a flip phone and a laptop. I trust both far more than Google, and slightly more than GrapheneOS.
Downvote all you like. I’m not telling any of you to do anything. You want security? Toss your phone out of a moving car and get a notebook.
They are going to get rid of those too, at least ones without gps and stuff. The age of cell phones is just over until we can get back control of our state from the superpacs and internationalist psychos who want to control everyone.
They are already gone. About the only dumbphones left either run a stripped down version of Android, or pseudo-custom OSes that still have some basic telemetry, and all have GPS/etc for “e911” requirements.
That’s not a bad idea.
Why not completely divorce your phone from your portable computing device?
Before smartphones, they were getting pretty small. You could probably make a phone that was just a voice activated earbud now. Then have a device that was everything but the “phone” bits. You wouldn’t have to accept the locked down aspects that the cell providers demand, you could have all the variety and functionality of your home computer or laptop.
Yeah. That’s too small.
Not enough space for an proper antenna and the battery requirements wouldn’t work plus the thermals the thing would kick off would burn your ear.
The transmission power requirements between Bluetooth and cellular is measured in magnitudes, 3-4 times the power.
The cellular modem and antenna could be fit into the charging case of earbuds but the battery life would still be terrible since most of the case is taken up by the space needed for the ear buds.
Can dumb flip phones provide Internet hotspots?
Yes, although generally they have less band support than “smart” phones, and with smaller batteries the hotspot tends to kill the phone pretty fast. It might end up being a case of using a basic smartphone with no software installed and as much stuff disabled as possible as a tether source.
It’s nearly impossible to even flash a rom these days, they made sure to cover that first. They want to make sure you are only allowed to watch or read what they approve of. That’s what it’s all about. Next time they get a democratic in, they won’t even give trans people their rights back, they are just going to go after gun rights hard. Mark my words.
I personally found it very easy to install Graphene and get it up and running.
Hard if you don’t have a snapdragon device. Mediatek processors have all kinds of stupid bullshit that makes it really hard to flash a file without their key. We really need to start sharing key generators for things again, especially for the bootloaders for our computers we buy.
I’ve been an android user for a long ass time. I want to install grapheneOS on my next phone since my current Samsung S23 won’t allow that. After that, what would be my options?
Any of the recent Pixels, though I’m not sure about the 10. And that’s it.
I’m running Graphene on a 9 and it’s solid.
I’m not sure about the 10.
Exactly the problem; current phones are good for the short-to-medium term, for anyone willing to use aging hardware, but what are the long-term prospects?
I’m hoping this will increase true open source phone OS development, like a Linux phone, but we’ll see. If there’s a way to really get Android or iOS apps onto a Linux phone (after these changes) then true open-source apps can fill most use-cases, but everyday users can still use the latest games/apps they expect to “just work”. That might be the ideal future option, at least until if/when Linux gets enough market share to get its own mainstream support (like the Steam Deck has brought to gaming).
We kind of need the Linux Foundation or Fairphone or similar to fork android or create a solid base for an alternative. Otherwise, we are screwed.
Like lineoageOS?
AFAIK, LineageOS is not a fork but a version of Android that is built on top of the Android Open Source Project (AOSP).
Yeah we’re boned, Everything we have Android like is AOSP based and as the changes happen, keeping them at bay will become unsustainable. Lineage, Graphine and Calyx are all AOSP based.
For now, it will likely be pretty easy for any of the forks to circumvent this particular change. I’m more worried about the future, it wouldn’t be hard for them to start pushing store APK’s to require proprietary hooks, there’s a good chance that eventually people won’t want to keep around Google and non Google versions of apps.
So you have Halium+VM for ~ ubuntu touch (still android drivers, but private)
Or postmarket derivatives, which is real linux, but is barely functional and has miserable battery life.
We’re playing catch up for linux and we can get there, but available phones are super limited and none of the contenders are solid daily drivers yet.
Biggest problem I have is there’s no good way to run Signal. If you do it in Halium under waydroid it eats power and getting it to run/keeping it updated under arm/linux is a part time job.
LineageOS has a great offering but you have to wait until your phone gets outdated because even hoping that it’ll be compatible with your model
No you dont. Lineageos supports a lot of phones that are still supported by their manufactures. Hell my fp4 is still in support too, and lineageos runs fine on it :p
Youre thinking of unofficial lineageos builds and ports to non-supported-by-lineageos phones
I don’t see that happening since the Linux foundation gets a bunch of funding from Google
Wtf? So Google has basically “bought” the only competitor that isn’t big tech
The Linux foundation isn’t a competitor at all. It gets all of its funding from big tech
They don’t develop something unless it is useful to these companies.
I don’t think the Linux foundation is doing any development themselves. Linux is open source, so anyone can contribute. I think the Linux foundation is like a legal entity and marketing kinda thing. I could be wrong about this though.
The individual members of the foundation most certainly do linux dev, which benefits their specific company. Think kernel or driver adjustments or supporting newer hardware for servers/datacenters.
However, that doesnt mean its only the foundation doing the work, thats just the paid work being done. The rest is all passion projects of people
Yes, but Google is probably happy to host their whole datacenter infrastructure on Linux and won’t have to buy expensive Windows server licenses and wants to keep it this way.
Windows can’t remotely keep up with Linux or even BSD
Ah yes, let’s host a website on IIS
Fairphone is already collaborating with a fork, /e/OS
Ive had grapheneOS for years, is every customer android rom done for? I may just get a “dumbphone” or maybe back to iphone? I wish I could just have no phone but obviously need close family to contact me at anytime
It’s very strange that you are considering moving to a dumbphone or an even more locked-down platform because google is locking down android.
They’re taking away a vital feature, so you want even more taken away?
What would you recommend? Apple tracks a ton of data but also blocks 3rd party trackers at least
Cans and string are about to make a comeback?
Meshtastic lol.
Or ham radios, or use a bright light to send morse code (using on/off flashes)
Use One Time Pad to encrypt the text.
Us: nope, I degoogled my Android phone. Good luck.
MicroG is amazing
Still sucks for the OSS community as a whole though.
Didn’t Google just fuck with them by making it really hard to developed graphene for pixel 10? If graphene os depends on the aging fleet of pixel 9s and older, they’re a few years away from being screwed too.
Sounds like I’ll be using a “phone” with Ubuntu Touch or similar with a VoIP SIP app running. As long as I have 4G/5G data, that’ll probably work as well as anything I’m willing to use.
For me, this has the added bonus of being able to configure my VoIP service however I want. Mine lets me do custom menus and such, easier to filter out robots that way.
Let’s see if I have an old Pixel 3a around…
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Is it offering SMS? I ported to jmp.chat recently, using their XMPP gateway for voice and SMS. They offer a VOIP option, but don’t support SMS.
I like being able to SMS, and I guess call, from my laptop. But there aren’t any Linux XMPP clients that I’m particularly happy with, so I’m just using Cheogram in Waydroid. It’s not exactly optimal.
I’m using VoIP.ms and yeah, they do SMS and MMS ($0.0075 per SMS, $0.02 per MMS). They have both an online portal and an Android app. There are a few limitations, but it seems to work pretty well overall.
Ubuntu touch works on pixel 3s. It was incredibly easy to install. I set aside an afternoon to make it work, and I was done in line 15 minutes. I was shocked. It has some rough edges but its usable. The biggest issue is the lack of apps. Also, i couldnt figure out the sandboxing thing that lets you run any limux app. I think maybe the UI had some bugs or something, it wasnt very intuitive.
On a related note, Ive always wanted to try shoving a sim card in my Linux laptop and use a voIP phone line with jmp or something.
Good way to get your laptop infected.
Lol this is old news brah 😅
Still waiting my Moto G 5G 2024 to have the “Allow OEM Unlocking” option to become un-greyed… it’s currently day 2/7 I think?
(supposedly it takes 7 days after being connected to the internet, even tho I already got the unlock code… 🤷♂️)
My last phone was Moto G 5G and it got destroyed…
Did you drop it, or are you saying its motorola’s fault?
So what happened is the dumbest thing ever. Yes it did have a small Crack on the screen… but that didn’t do anything for months until it rained and then ONE drop landed on a spot that busted it. No joke. It seemed to return to life a long ass time later but the screen still died and is non functional.
I mean a “small crack” is a big deal tho. Even if it was a pixel, that “small crack” would’ve ruing the IP rating.
But unlike a $500 pixel, the Moto G 5G 2024 only $140 so you could just easily get a replacement.
Would you mind letting me know if it works out? Was thinking of getting a Moto G, I’m using an elderly Samsung and no way will I replace it with another Samsung.
YAYAYAYAY! 😁 (Today is Day 6, didn’t even need the full 7 days)
I feel like a Hacker right now.
Now I just need to flash Lineage.
Good luck, my friend. Moto G 2024 is only like $140 (on discount) right now. Do not get carrier versions, those don’t unlock. Get the full retail price version. Its XT2417-1.
Great news! Congrats mate, and thanks for updating me.
I’m not sure if the same issues are present in the phone you guys are referring to but I had a terrible experience with a G35. More here https://samartean-rares.com/moto-g35-terrible-software-decent-hardware-117 . Idk use your own judgement ofc but perhaps be wary that what you buy won’t be hot garbage. That G35 that I had truly was hot garbage, but it’s an entry level phone I guess.
Thanks for the heads up. Yeah it’s hard to know what’s going to be a pile of shit. I had a good experience with a moto previously - but that was maybe ten years ago, a lot could have changed since then.
I’m looking for something mid range I guess, £500 max. I’ve always had cheaper phones and I’m tired of being frustrated with a device I use so much so I’m gonna spend a bit more on the next one.
