Calling a “regular” Linux desktop operating system being Black boxed or closed source is a bit too far in my opinion. I do not agree 100%, but I understand the concerns and points brought up in this discussion.

My priority in what I use is for it to work out-of-the-box, be secure, and not get in my way. For security reasons I do support the concept of 100% open-source purity (though I’m much softer on or even opposed to the “free” part of FOSS), but I’m not prepared to sacrifice convenience for that cause.

Depending on whether you want a distro that removes all non-free options from the start or one that gives you free options, or ways to only select free options, I’d add Gentoo to that list. Much like in other situations, it gives you the choice to have your cake and eat it too. You can select a list of licenses you want (with certain predefined sets), and override that list on a per-package basis if you want/need.

Here is a Guide/Wiki-Article.

Make sure they /actually work/ on your computer; not for nothing Debian started to include proprietary drivers by default.

If you switch to <fully-free-os> and nothing works, then what?

We would all prefer no proprietary code whatsoever, but prefer even more that stuff would work.

If you really want to go for fully libre route, I’d consider buying –in the future or now, depends on how much do you want it right now– the correct hardware for it.

Probably OpenBSD NetBSD

We need purists like the fsf. They are truly fighting the good fight, but I am also happy to see people be just more free too, even with some compromise.

Wasn’t there something that couldn’t be classified as free because it had json or something which has a licence and it’s only stipulation is is “do not use for evil”?

Hard disagree. Only people that are already in linux-land should even think or talk about this, and only after they’re aware of what they depend on and whether they can even do that in the first place.

Main reason: biggest thing holding Linux back is user-base. The more users there are, the more that companies will actually care about supporting the OS. In the meantime, newbies to Linux need an OS that is as hassle free as possible that supports what they need. Windows and macOS have their downsides, but you can’t disagree that they work out of the box. You only get a few chances to get someone to even think about switching ecosystems, and going to a straight free distro is another huge hurdle on top of that. Most closed source applications only get tested on debian/rhel based distros anyway, I wouldn’t be able to do my my day job on a distro outside of that without some serious headache.

There are many closed source components that don’t have equivalent open source alternatives, and features are a thing that will snag many people. Most people aren’t technical.

For that goal, really stick by the FSF recommendations, for that, they are perfect as they have strict requirements.

But I think calling other GNU/Linux distros black box only because some drivers are proprietary is a bit too far, some people just prefer a “minimum damage” approach and that’s a compromise everyone needs to decide for themselves. If I were living in China or Iraq, however, then I would exclusively run distros like that as well.

The FSF has an ass-backwards approach to firmware, leading to only these distros fulfilling their requirements.

Their preference for firmware is as follows:

1. Firmware that’s open source (fair enough)
2. Firmware that can’t be updated (i.e. devices that are flashed once at the factory)
3. Firmware that can be updated (CPU microcode, firmware for GPUs, SSDs, etc)

As Linux includes patching of CPU microcode on boot (to fix security vulnerabilities and bugs) the default build of Linux doesn’t fulfill those requirements.

Ah… but then that’s not enough, you need to insure that the supply chain itself is 100% free! For example if you are using an Intel CPU, how can you verify it does what it says it does?

Enter precursor.dev ! Check this out if 100% free is not enough for you.

PS: honestly do what makes pragmatically your world, and that of the ones around you, better. Hopefully it is toward free software but IMHO if you have more agency with usage (which yes does overlap significantly with this) then it’s a powerful step to keep on doing so.

Can someone educate me on why the more common ones like Debian and Arch aren’t on this list? Every single day Linux communities force me to look at computer stuff in a different light

Iirc, the list is of operating systems that the FSF recommends. You could have a system running 100% free software, but the FSF won’t recommend it if the distro makes it easy to theoretically install proprietary code. It’s fine to run such a system, but the FSF won’t recommend it.

I dont agree. Life is a balance. You use proprietary software every day, everybody does. It exists in nearly every aspect of day to day life. You can never truly be free of it, but advocating for and using FOSS where possible is worthwhile anyway. Going fully blob-free would mean significantly more effort for what to me is not that much of an improvement to my life.

It’s the same reason i garden on my apartment balcony, but dont grow all my own food. I could probably just about manage it, but i’d be spending every second of my available time to keep the thing going just to reduce my already infrequent grocery trips (but not to zero since i still need soap and toothpaste).

I’m happy with the additional features, security, and transparency provided by Fedora over the OS my laptop was designed to run. I go through some level of effort to use Linux, but nothing crazy. If there was some widely available hardware with decent performance, price, and comparable features, made with ethical labor and that worked with Debian with the deblobbed kernel, i’d definitely give it a shot. Currently it’s too much work for too little gain for me.

But if it works for you, that’s awesome. I respect the commitment to your ideals.

They’re 100% free in the sense that they don’t ship closed code, ever. That is the goal to attain. However, we’re not there yet. For that, hardware needs to be open. Hardware can’t be as easily be made by a group of volunteers as software. Like at all. To solve this ‘transient’ state, all popular distros allow adding some sort of ‘nonfree’ repo so that, you know, shit can work. For instance, you are free to install Debian and not enable the nonfree repo, which is not enabled by default. You are also free to wonder later why your webcam doesn’t work, you can’t print, your bluetooth headset won’t pair and your fancy gaming GPU outputs 10 FPS @800x600.