Following https://tarte.nuage-libre.fr/c/fediverse/p/194717/we-need-more-users I decided to explore data a little bit more. I’m not the biggest fan of growth-as-as-target so I wanted to see how much the people were participating in the discussion.
The data
I took the data from the API explorer in https://api.fediverse.observer/ with this query:
query {
monthlystats {
date_checked
softwarename
total_posts
total_users
total_comments
}
}
Then parsed the json with this https://jqlang.org/ filter:
jq '.data.monthlystats | map(select(.total_users > 0 and (.softwarename == "lemmy" or .softwarename == "mbin" or .softwarename == "kbin" or .softwarename == "piefed"))) | group_by(.date_checked) | map( {date_checked: .[0].date_checked, total_users: ([.[] | .total_users] | add), total_posts: ([.[] | .total_posts] | add), total_comments: ([.[] | .total_comments] | add)}) | map({date_checked, posts: .total_posts/.total_users, comments: .total_comments/.total_users}) | sort_by(.date_checked) | map([.date_checked, (.posts | tostring), (.comments | tostring)]) | .[] | @csv'
(As you see I filtered for the threadiverse. I also did the same with all software, I’ll put the graph for that in comments)
Then did a good old’ chart
What to think of it
I don’t know. Users’ activity is on the rise and I find it nice
I think more isers would be good, though I like how the fediverse is right now. It’s small, but it has enough content to have me coming back, but not so much that I’ll spend the entire day browsing.
Yes.
Needing more users is fine. Sure, we could always use more friends (or enemies, I guess)
But, ultimately, just having people come here first and then whatever hellhole corpo-media second is at least a step in the right direction. I feel like user activity increasing is a good sign that there’s a lot of people out there investing time in the fediverse instead of the corporate hell-loop social media.
Quality over quantity
Lemmy has neither.
I disagree, ive had more useful discussion here than anywhere on the internet in a while.
All I see is about 60% general news/politics (pointing out the obvious, Trump bad, ICE bad, America is dumb, people should be rioting in the streets from all the bad things, capitalism bad), 30% Linux/FOSS circlejerk (don’t use Chrome, use Firefox, don’t use Firefox, use Librewolf, don’t use AI, Linux always works out of the box and is so easy to use even a grandparent can do it, it also has an App Store, oh you had an error with the App Store just start typing black magic into the command line, and don’t use snaps, I use arch BTW), and 10% low effort memes (Greentext, ADHD memes, usually generic and low effort). None of these are particularly plentiful — except for the fact that they’re the ONLY content seemingly available — and none are high quality either. I don’t ever see any Cities: Skylines content for instance, let alone Workers and Resources. Have to go to Reddit for that.
Absolutely top notch summary of the state of lemmy
deleted by creator
The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users
I am literally on a furry instance, I subscrube to most furry and a lot of anime comms, and I don’t block NSFW content; I rarely if ever see furry or anime content on the front page and yet I see this said a lot on Lemmy.
Where is it? Where is all this furry content? I specifically requested it and it doesn’t exist. 😬
The amount of furry / anime content on the front page might be putting off some new users
I don’t see this on mine. Isn’t NSFW enabled by default?
This is why I don’t generally believe in all being a good “starting” view for new users. Local would probably make more sense until the user has subscriptions, and then defaulting to subscriptions once the user has joined communities. This would mean an always active feed to start, prioritizing the “local” community for users to participate in the instance they belong to, while also not bombarding them with content from the firehose.
My 2 cents, probably easier to say what to do than to do it though, being a programmer myself. 😎
yeah i think when a new user signs up on an instance, they should be automatically subscribed to a certain list of communities that fit the vibe of the instance. like when you sign up to a memes community, you get automatically subscribed to all meme communities even from other instances.
the instance admin would have to maintain a community list for that.
I’m not saying it’s necessarily NSFW content
Pro-capitalism garbage is putting me off, yet is everywhere. I like that it’s different, not everyone wants the same things
lemmy is basically NSFW because of this, yes. the amount of furry anime porn that reaches the front page is crazy.
i don’t get why it being pushed, but I suppose it’s just the userbase is very active and passionate about that stuff so it rises to the top.
how comes i never see it? did i block it accidentally?
you’re on a different instance
I’ve been blocking communities and posters as they pop up. It works until someone spins up a new instance for it, but then you can just block that as well.
yes, i can.
but it’s problematic if I have to do that every day. It’s almost a daily part of my use of lemmy.
I don’t want to have to block stuff as a part of my daily use.
this is actually the reason I don’t use tiktok or instagram. because my user experience was block block block, everytime I used it. And it never stopped shoveling the shit I didn’t want to see into my face. and a lot of it was pornographic clickbait crap.
i liked it back when it was smaller, but around 2020/2021 both platforms decided to shove tits in my face non stop. and i wasn’t on those platforms for tits. I was on there for my hobbies, but it kept pushing porn on me. so i stopped using it entirely. i still use youtube because youtube isn’t constantly shoveling porno shit in my face.
that’s kind of what lemmy feels like. except it’s with furryies, linux, etc. even when I block stuff more of it keeps popping up. i want to see more generalist content related to general interests, not content from people who are fetishists.
i have been on lemmy over two years. my first 1.5 years i hardly ever had to block anything, because shit content i dont’ like wasn’t flooding my feed. when i first got here it was just a lot of general news/science/information and link aggregation about nerdy stuff, which i really liked and why i liked reddit. i know there was furry porn on reddit from it’s inception, but I never had to see any of it unless i went looking for it specifically, like a lot of the fetish stuff on reddit.
Try PieFed. The reason you keep seeing furry content on Lemmy is that you are forced into browsing “All” in order to see some new content, but then you don’t like some of the new content that you see.
On PieFed with categories of communities (instance-defined Topic areas and user Feeds that are user-customizeable and shareable) you can have your cake (have a tight Subscribed feed, e.g. without being subscribed to any politics communities if you wanted) but then also eat it too (news & politics content is but a click away, or movies & TV).
Combining together comments across all cross-posts also helps a lot with community discovery. I haven’t searched by All in a long time, unless I just felt nostalgic and wanted to, but there is no longer any need with this new model.
piefed is full of memes. i hate it.
i also am annoyed at having it constantly shrilled at me. i am thinking about blocking it.
Without trying to shill it to you, it has the same content you would see on lemmy.world. It’s no more memey than lemmy.world.
that isn’t true. anytime i have gone there it’s WAY more memey. it looks more like mastrodon/twitter than reddit.
I am not interesting in meme platforms.
Let’s keep it just under critical mass for Eternal September to not happen.
That was over 30 years ago, longer than I’ve been alive. I just want niche communities to subscribe to (Cities: Skylines, model trains, Madison WI) instead of the constant barrage of generic politics, Linux obsession, and low effort memes.
That was over 30 years ago
It was over 30 years ago that the term was coined. As a concept, it happens all the time. It happened with Reddit multiple times.
Yeah, it’s happened multiple times that a website has reached critical mass such that normal people start joining and posting a variety of interests, rather than just non-stop posting about their super duper hardened non-fingerprintable self hosted LibreWolf instance with VPN to prevent those dirty big tech companies from stealing their precious browsing history data. No one will ever know how much they prefer AMD cards over NVIDIA and that they use Arch BTW! And general news and politics (Capitalism Bad™).
reddit used to be an internet place you looked at in class or uni when you had a break. I dont know how people get introd to it, but appealing to high schoolers is what reddit did. I made my reddit account when I was like 17, and lurked before that
We need active users, not just users that post something once then disappear. The MAU is more important than the user count.
Grow organically or die
That’s a very capitalist take. Remember how good things used to be? That’s how good the Fediverse is now. We don’t want it to grow or die. If it grows, great. If it doesn’t, great. Quality over quantity, imo.
I saw it as more philosophical than capitalistic. Like when Nietzsche said “What does not kill you makes you stronger”.
the fediverse is very low quality unless you’re a furry linux-using anarchist/communist
for those of us who live in a broader reality with more ‘normie’ beliefs and lifestyles, it’s weak. it needs less weirdos who go around projecting their persecution complex everywhere
Yep. This is it.
Where is all this furry shit everyone is complaining about? I see one or two posts break 100 votes maybe every other week.
You’re spot on about Linux though. But I think it’s a good thing to be introduced to stuff you’re uncomfortable with. The constant flood of Linux content convinced me to switch.
every other day i have to block 2-3 furry communities, usually porno ones.
they aren’t no the front page, but once you go a few clicks deeper, boom goes the furry memes/porn.
i’ve blocked like 50 communities and 90% of them are furry content.
most of this was in the past few months, i never saw it the first 1.5 years i was here.
being introduce to furry porn isn’t expanding my horizon, it’s just annoying and weird, and offputting. it’s a sexual fetish. looking at pictures of feet would be similar, but I don’t get bombarded by foot porn here, just furry porn.
Also the linux fetishism on this site is super weird. I’m an IT professional. I use Linux. I don’t idealize it however. It’s just another OS among many. And most of the Linux content is more about being ANGRY about microsoft and apple than anything else.
25 years ago people were going on the same about how linux will save the world… and fantazing that one day microsoft would crumble. it didn’t. it won’t. in fact the opposite happened.
Linux is fine, but it’s a niche OS for nerds and admins. It’s not for regular home/office users and you aren’t a technology Jesus for using it or discovering it. It’s been around since the 1991.
You’re proving my comment made yesterday about a large chunk of Lemmy users being barely literate.
You’ve convinced me that we need more users given the high number of current posters who like to criticize others with insults reminiscent of a bratty 5th grader. We need to dilute that voice.
I dont think more users is very important. Its not going to make Lemmy change from mostly memes anyway.
The mentality of the largest Lemmy instances is still to moderate away opinions they dont agree with, so this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.
Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.
But we can all enjoy memes together. :) Its kind of nice. Lemmy is chill and easy. Even kid friendly.
I like that communities/instances have opinions and go in a direction. That’s what make decentralization useful rather than one big average thing that always pushes towards the status quo in the end. Mako your own community with your own rules without all-powerful overseers, that’s a system I believe in
Doesnt really work in practice. If a community exists on Lemmy world, you are not going to have success running the same community somewhere else.
Its just the nature of things. Even Lemmy is mostly centralized to large instances, despite its federated technology.
Yeah if you want to do the same community it’s going to be harder, but if you want to make your own community with your own content and views it’s different.
Also, the history of the internet contradicts your point, communities have moved servers since the beginning, there never was a unique central point for everything. Lemmy is a bit inferior here because it only allows you to see communities one by one, but piefed can group communities into feeds that you can directly follow. By not placrng focus on a single one piefed can push for much more diversity
this place is never going to be good for any discussions where people disagree strongly.
Most users downvote what they dont agree with. Its a circle jerk echo chamber where we all agree or get downvoted.
So true, and so sad. This has been such a disappointment to me, and even a bit of a surprise. I just didn’t realize how badly most people respond to seeing viewpoints they don’t fully share. Personally I don’t get the point of discussion where everyone agrees, but apparently that is quite a rare attitude. So I share your pessimism, but with one glimmer of hope. There is at least one forum which has cracked this problem: Hacker News. The issue being that it’s frequented by exactly the kind of techie Spock-like personalities that aren’t representative of the general population.
Yeah exactly, they dont have downvotes and any upvote also requires karma, so you cant just create new accounts and bot upvote things.
But yes, its also a much more mature audience at that site. Many are older computer nerds. Lemmy has some of that too though.
They also have a moderator that is full time working on keeping the site clean, so there is that.
But yeah, I really miss discussions where you see unpopular opinions and they are not downvoted, because I can handle seeing that. I may not agree and then I will just ignore or comment, not downvote it.
Without good moderation, it will turn into 4chan though. So yeah, the extremes are not good, have to be in the middle.
I so feel we need more users, but not just users. It’s “niche” users we need. There’s a lot of techies on the threadiverse (Lemmy, PieFed, Mbin), but not enough people who care about other stuff.
So communities outside that, struggle to thrive.
But we are not going to get “niche” users if we don’t get large numbers of users. Niche interests will only come up here when the population is so large that even the long tail ends up with critical masses.
Those defending “quality over quantity” miss this exact point.
My point about “niche” is that from the current perspective, the niche communities is the more regular ones, because at the moment, the majority of users here is technical. We need more ordinary users, not just more users.
We scare normal, non-techie people away. The Threadiverse in general and Lemmy in particular is very lacking in moderation capabilities, especially by not federating mod reports across instances (PieFed does that, but Lemmy does not).
As for the title question:
Do we need more users ?
We don’t need more users. It might be nice, there are benefits, but we don’t need it. I agree with you on not caring much about growth-as-a-target, “growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell”. I was here years before the first big reddit exodus with the third-party API changes and I was having a good time back then too.
The post the other day about lemmy needing more users and engagement gave a little nudge to me commenting more. I guess same thing happened with many users and you can see the spike in the graph.
I had the idea to revive dead c/ by reposting from reddit. It’s controversial to use a bot
Maybe limit the bot to only copy the top post that week.
Here’s the thing imo. Bots used well can be really useful. The most attractive part about Reddit/Lemmy though is the comments. Seeing what people have to say about stuff is quite nice.
BUT. I can see how bots can be super helpful to subscribe to content where community interaction isn’t that important (like art posted by artists on Instagram, Twitter and so on). The main attraction is the art itself. Not the comments.
This way, I can see what my favorite instagram artists are up to without selling my soul to zuck.
Niche hobbies and small communities (that are active) is what is needed
Yes! We need more esp32 users to come up with bonkers ideas.
Efi System Partition 32 bit?
i remember writing code for the ESP boot system
Comes with numbers. Not before.
This is it exactly. I made a hard cut with Reddit, but I’ll admit to missing the sysadmin subreddit. The place was full of very smart, helpful people and also cranky. The PowerShell subreddit was another great resource. I haven’t been willing to go back, but those sorts of communities only exist when you hit a certain mass of people on a platform.
For that we need a LOT more users. It’s kind of a chicken and egg situation.
Hopefully we can capitalise on the next Rexit.
In the past lots of people moved over but left because of the terrible UX. I think PieFed has solved most of the UX issues.
Reddit had the additional benefit of being found through google… that’s how i learned about the site.
you cant google your way into this place - and that’s a huge limitation, when it comes to expanding the user base with random normal people.
If you Google for “beans no pooping challenge” https://lemmy.eco.br/post/113558?scrollToComments=true at least appears on the first page of results - that’s progress, baby!
